When We Talk About Animals

Law, Environment & Animals Program at Yale Law School

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In their own words

When We Talk About Animals is a series of in-depth conversations with leading thinkers about the big questions animals raise about what it means to be human. Supported by the Law, Environment & Animals Program at Yale Law School and the Yale Broadcast Studio.

Why you'd press play

Whale oil meets whale personhood, and your tidy definition of 'human' starts to wobble.

Press play if you want

  • Viveka Morris to ask who gets a say when humans consider editing nature
  • to hear why Soviet whaling kept going after the immediate need for it faded
Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

Talks about

Best episodes of When We Talk About Animals

Short reviews from the PlayNext desk, based on the episodes we processed.

Ep. 1 – Natalie Kofler asks: What role should humans play in editing nature?Nov 19, 2018

CRISPR's environmental promise meets the harder question of who gets to decide.

CRISPR comes through as a question of power and responsibility, not just a technical breakthrough. Dr. Natalie Koffler, a molecular biologist and founder and director of Yale University's Editing Nature Initiative, frames environmental gene editing as a tool that could end…

Ep. 21 – David Barrie on the wonders of animal navigation

Pigeons, desert ants, and migratory birds make navigation feel stranger than human instruments suggest.

Animal navigation becomes a quiet challenge to human certainty here, moving from pigeons released in unfamiliar places to Sahara desert ants crossing salt pans by the fastest route home.

Ep. 47 – Poet Aimee Nezhukumatathil on writing love letters to nature

A thoughtful episode on how wonder for the living world can become a reason to care for it.

The episode considers how writing about animals and plants can stretch empathy, stir memory, and make the natural world feel freshly vivid. Its strongest thread is the idea behind World of Wonders: joy and melancholy can sit together, and love or wonder may move people toward…

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Episodes

  1. 1

    Ep. 47 – Poet Aimee Nezhukumatathil on writing love letters to nature

    This episode explores poet Aimee Nezhukumatathil's book 'World of Wonders,' which celebrates nature and animals through essays that weave personal stories with reverence for the natural world.

    ·57m·2 clips
  2. 2

    Ep. 45 – Rob Dunn on what the laws of biology predict about our future

    This episode explores how humans have reshaped the planet and our dependence on ecological laws, featuring insights from biologist Rob Dunn on biodiversity and conservation.

    ·1h 1m
  3. 3

    Ep. 32 – Gene Baur on changing hearts, minds and laws about farm animals

    This episode features Gene Baur discussing Farm Sanctuary's mission to transform human-animal relationships by rescuing farm animals from factory farming and promoting ethical treatment.

    ·53m
  4. 4

    Ep. 46 – Paleobiologist Thomas Halliday on the Animals of Ancient Worlds

    Paleobiologist Thomas Halliday discusses his book exploring Earth's extinct worlds through fossils and cutting-edge science, revealing the fragility and unpredictability of life's history.

    ·58m
  5. 5

    Ep. 17 – Fabrice Schnoller on free diving with sperm whales

    This episode features free diver Fabrice Schnoller discussing his life-changing encounter with sperm whales off Mauritius and exploring their remarkable intelligence and brain structures.

    ·54m
  6. 6

    Ep. 29 – Amanda Hitt on why the animal agriculture industry needs whistleblowers

    This episode features attorney Amanda Hitt discussing the critical role of whistleblowers in exposing wrongdoing in the animal agriculture industry and other public health issues.

    ·59m
  7. 7

    Ep. 10 – Dale Jamieson on love and meaning in the age of humans

    This episode explores the philosophical implications of the Anthropocene era through a discussion of Dale Jamieson's book 'Love and the Anthropocene', examining how human-driven environmental changes challenge traditional notions of human exceptionalism.

    ·54m
  8. 8

    Ep. 16 — Thomas Seeley on the lives of bees

    This episode features Dr.

    ·49m
  9. 9

    Ep. 42 – Edie Widder on the ocean’s spectacular light

    This episode explores how marine bioluminescence is far more common than previously thought, featuring ocean explorer Dr.

    ·51m
  10. 10

    Ep. 15 – Gay Bradshaw on Charlie Russell, grizzly bears, and the search for truth

    This episode features Gay Bradshaw discussing Charlie Russell's unique relationship with grizzly bears and exploring animal emotions, trauma, and human-animal connections.

    ·1h
  11. 11

    Ep. 26 – Ian Urbina on the Outlaw Ocean

    Investigative journalist Ian Urbina discusses the lawlessness of international waters, where human rights abuses like slavery and trafficking are common in industries like fishing.

    ·55m
  12. 12

    Ep. 14 – David Wolfson on pioneering the field of farm animal law

    This episode explores the lack of legal protections for farm animals in the U.S., featuring insights from David Wolfson on pioneering farm animal law and the staggering scale of animal agriculture.

    ·1h 4m
  13. 13

    Ep. 25 – Doug Kysar and Jon Lovvorn on law in the Anthropocene

    This episode features Yale Law professors Doug Kysar and Jon Lovvorn discussing their work expanding legal frameworks to address animal welfare, environmental protection, and future generations through the Law, Ethics, and Animals Program (LEAP).

    ·50m
  14. 14

    Ep. 40 – Michelle Nijhuis on the history of the wildlife conservation movement

    This episode features science journalist Michelle Nijhuis discussing her book 'Beloved Beasts', which explores the complex history and evolution of the wildlife conservation movement through the stories of figures like Aldo Leopold, John Muir, and Rachel Carson.

    ·54m
  15. 15

    Ep. 11 – Diana Reiss on recognizing the dolphins in the mirror

    This episode explores the historical and mythological reverence for dolphins across cultures, examining how these narratives intersect with scientific understanding of dolphin intelligence and consciousness.

    ·59m
  16. 16

    Ep. 24 – Christopher Ketcham on the abuse of the American West

    Investigative journalist Christopher Ketcham discusses how unregulated capitalism and private interests are threatening public lands in the American West, as documented in his new book.

    ·51m
  17. 17

    Ep. 39 – Bernie Krause on saving the music of the wild

    This episode features Bernie Krause discussing his transition from a successful music career to pioneering bioacoustics by recording and preserving the sounds of wild habitats.

    ·1h 6m
  18. 18

    Ep. 36 – Rebecca Giggs on the world in the whale

    This episode features an interview with author Rebecca Giggs about her book 'Fathoms,' exploring how whales reveal profound connections between humanity, science, and environmental issues.

    ·1h 6m
  19. 19

    Ep. 51 – Novelist Ned Beauman on venomous lumpsuckers and the price of extinction

    This episode discusses Ned Beauman's satirical novel 'Venomous Lumpsucker,' which explores a dystopian future where extinction has become a market-driven industry through extinction credits, following two characters on a quest to find a surviving intelligent fish species.

    ·1h 5m
  20. 20

    Ep. 7 – “Eating Animals” film director Christopher Quinn on the hidden costs of factory farming

    This episode features filmmaker Christopher Quinn discussing his documentary 'Eating Animals' and exploring the environmental, ethical, and historical implications of factory farming.

    ·59m
  21. 21

    Ep. 6 – Gale Ridge on bringing peace to humans’ befuddling relationships with bugs

    This episode explores the dramatic decline of insect populations and features an interview with Dr.

    ·53m
  22. 22

    Ep. 5 – Lisa Margonelli on the big ideas termites raise about science, technology, and morality

    This episode features an interview with Lisa Margonelli about her book 'Underbug', which uses termites as a lens to explore big questions in science, technology, and morality.

    ·54m
  23. 23

    Ep. 50 – Australian Biologist Danielle Clode on the Extraordinary World of Koalas

    This episode explores the impact of Australia's 2019-2020 bushfires on koalas, highlighting their vulnerability to climate change and habitat destruction while discussing human compassion and the need for greater understanding of this iconic species.

    ·51m
  24. 24

    Ep. 48 – Patrick Rose on the Fight to Save Florida’s Manatees

    This episode features Patrick Rose discussing the urgent fight to save Florida's manatees from human-caused threats like boat strikes and pesticide contamination.

    ·1h 2m
  25. 25

    Ep. 37 – Monica Gagliano on plant intelligence and human imagination

    This episode explores the emerging scientific perspective that plants possess intelligence, senses, and agency, challenging traditional Western views that treat them as passive objects.

    ·54m
  26. 26

    Ep. 31 – Zak Smith on ending the international wildlife trade

    This episode explores the international wildlife trade's role in biodiversity loss and disease transmission, using examples like COVID-19 origins and the Tiger King documentary to highlight systemic issues.

    ·54m
  27. 27

    Ep. 22 – Ferris Jabr on reviving the Gaia hypothesis

    This episode explores journalist Ferris Jabr's revival of the Gaia hypothesis, which views Earth as a living organism, and discusses its implications for understanding evolution, climate change, and humanity's impact on the global ecosystem.

    ·54m
  28. 28

    Ep. 23 – David Rothenberg on playing music with whales and nightingales

    This episode explores philosopher-musician David Rothenberg's lifelong journey of playing music alongside animals like birds and whales to understand animal communication and what it reveals about humanity.

    ·52m
  29. 29

    Ep. 44 – Rick McIntyre on the stories of Yellowstone’s greatest wolves

    This episode features Rick McIntyre discussing the emotional lives of Yellowstone's wolves and the historical extermination campaign that wiped them out from the park.

    ·1h 26m
  30. 30

    Ep. 43 – Cynthia Barnett on our world of seashells

    This episode features Cynthia Barnett discussing how seashells reveal insights about the environment, oceans, and human relationships through history and science.

    ·1h 4m
  31. 31

    Ep. 33 – Valérie Courtois on Indigenous-led land and wildlife stewardship

    This episode explores how Indigenous nations in Canada are leading conservation efforts to protect caribou herds and ecosystems through collaborative agreements like UPCART, blending traditional knowledge with Western science.

    ·55m
  32. 32

    Ep. 34 – Daniel Pauly on why overfishing is a Ponzi scheme

    This episode features fishery scientist Daniel Pauly explaining how industrial overfishing operates like a Ponzi scheme, depleting ocean species through technological advances and government subsidies while expanding geographically and taxonomically.

    ·59m
  33. 33

    Ep. 19 – Robert Macfarlane on being good ancestors across deep time

    This episode explores how to create a warning system for nuclear waste that lasts 10,000 years, featuring Robert Macfarlane's insights from his book 'Underland' about deep time and our responsibility as ancestors.

    ·49m
  34. 34

    Ep. 41 – Ecologist Hugh Warwick on Loving Your Hedgehogs

    This episode explores the dramatic decline of hedgehog populations in the UK, examining threats like habitat loss from industrial agriculture and urban development, and discussing broader ecological implications.

    ·58m
  35. 35

    Ep. 38 – Margaret Renkl on discovering wonder, grief, and inspiration in backyard nature

    This episode features author Margaret Renkl discussing how backyard nature provides wonder, grief, and inspiration through everyday encounters with wildlife.

    ·52m
  36. 36

    Ep. 35 – J. Drew Lanham on finding ourselves magnified in nature’s colored hues

    This episode features an interview with Dr.

    ·1h
  37. 37

    Ep. 2 – Peter Godfrey-Smith asks: What can the octopus teach us about consciousness?

    This episode explores how octopuses, as distant evolutionary cousins, challenge ancient assumptions about consciousness and intelligence.

    ·1h 1m·5 clips
  38. 38

    Ep. 49 – Dog Cognition Expert Alexandra Horowitz on the Quiddity of Puppies

    This episode explores puppy development and cognition during the COVID-19 pandemic, featuring insights from dog cognition expert Alexandra Horowitz on how puppies rapidly mature into complex companions.

    ·1h 3m
  39. 39

    Ep. 20 – Gabriela Cowperthwaite on the legacy of “Blackfish”

    This episode explores filmmaker Gabriela Cowperthwaite's documentary 'Blackfish' and its impact on exposing the ethical issues surrounding orca captivity at SeaWorld.

    ·48m
  40. 40

    Ep. 3 – Sue Savage-Rumbaugh on learning from humanity’s closest living relatives

    This episode features an interview with primatologist Sue Savage-Rumbaugh, exploring bonobo communication and cognition, focusing on the famous ape Kanzi's ability to understand and use language with humans.

    ·1h 5m·5 clips
  41. 41

    Ep. 21 – David Barrie on the wonders of animal navigation

    This episode explores the extraordinary navigational abilities of animals like pigeons and desert ants, featuring insights from author David Barrie on how these creatures perform feats that humans can only achieve with instruments.

    ·1h·2 clips
  42. 42

    Ep. 18 — Anthony Weston on animals, aliens and the silence of the universe

    This episode explores philosopher Anthony Weston's perspective on the Fermi Paradox, suggesting that the apparent silence of the universe reveals more about human challenges in understanding non-human minds than about the existence of extraterrestrial life.

    ·54m
  43. 43

    Ep. 28 – Bathsheba Demuth on capitalism, communism and arctic ecology

    Hidden gem

    Bathsheba DeMuth explains how 19th-century New England whaling transformed Beringia, where bowhead whales had supported Indigenous communities for at least 2,000 years.

    ·59m·4 clips
  44. 44

    Ep. 8 – Charles Siebert on translating nature’s symphony

    This episode explores Jakob von Uxkull's bio-philosophical concept of animals as instruments in nature's symphony, with guest Charles Siebert discussing how to translate these interconnected life worlds.

    ·58m
  45. 45

    Ep. 30 – Sonia Shah on how animal microbes become human pandemics

    This episode features investigative journalist Sonia Shah discussing how environmental and social factors drive the spillover of animal microbes into human pandemics, using COVID-19 as a key example.

    ·1h
  46. 46

    Ep. 4 – Irene Pepperberg on revolutionizing what humans think of bird brains

    This episode features Dr.

    ·57m·5 clips
  47. 47

    Ep. 27 – Ed Yong on telling the grand, urgent and surprising stories of animal worlds

    Jan 13, 2020
  48. 48

    Ep. 13 – Nicholas Christakis on the animal origins of goodness

    Apr 1, 2019
  49. 49

    Ep. 12 – Novelist Lindsay Stern on “The Study of Animal Languages”

    Mar 18, 2019
  50. 50

    Ep. 9 – Being Charles Foster being a beast

    Feb 11, 2019
  51. 51

    Ep. 1 – Natalie Kofler asks: What role should humans play in editing nature?

    Natalie Koffler explains how a CRISPR gene drive can push a trait through 100% of a wild population.

    Nov 19, 2018·53m·2 clips
  52. 52

    Ep. 0 – Coming soon: When We Talk About Animals

    Nov 9, 2018·2m