Therapy Chat · Laura Reagan, LCSW-C

483: Healing With The Safe and Sound Protocol (SSP) | Dr. Stephen Porges + Karen Onderko

May 19, 2025·51 min·5 clips

An autistic child turns and says 'good morning, Dr. Porges' after five hours of SSP, showing unexpected connection.

This episode features host Laura Reagan interviewing Dr. Stephen Porges and Karen Onderko, co-authors of the book "Safe and Sound," about the Safe and Sound Protocol (SSP). Dr. Porges is the creator of the Polyvagal Theory and the SSP, while Karen Onderko helped translate the research into practice through the organization Unyte. The SSP is an auditory intervention designed to cue the nervous system toward safety. The protocol originated as the "listening project" in Dr. Porges's lab, using computer-filtered vocal music to amplify melodic intonation. Initial testing showed remarkable effects on children with auditory hypersensitivities and autism, with one child making eye contact and greeting Dr. Porges after five hours. The intervention works by engaging the social engagement system and down-regulating defensive states like fight-or-flight. For individuals with trauma histories, the bodily feeling of safety induced by SSP can initially be interpreted as vulnerability, leading to adverse reactions. Clinicians learned to manage this through careful titration of the listening experience. A memorable story involves a nine-year-old girl who described her post-SSP feeling as "my stomach has a smile with eyes that blink very happy." Dr. Porges explains that SSP acts as a "neural exercise," challenging and relaxing the system to improve physiological flexibility. Unlike implanted vagal nerve stimulators, SSP is a non-invasive auditory training program. Research indicates SSP reduces auditory hypersensitivities, improves auditory processing, and decreases symptoms of anxiety, depression, and PTSD. In autistic individuals, the goal is not to change neurodivergence but to reduce the burden of hypersensitivity. Dr. Porges emphasizes that SSP is not a standalone therapy and works best within a relational, therapeutic context. The Meadows addiction treatment facility uses SSP first to calm clients' nervous systems, accelerating subsequent therapies. The protocol's effectiveness relies on the provider being in a regulated, ventral vagal state to offer co-regulation. Disrupted gut function and chronic pain are cited as common markers of a dysregulated nervous system that SSP can address. The tone is educational and conversational, blending personal anecdotes with scientific explanation. Listeners interested in polyvagal theory, somatic therapies, or innovative trauma treatments will find this episode valuable. Those seeking a quick, self-administered fix or skeptical of non-talk therapy approaches might prefer to skip it.

As heard by us

A clear look at how SSP depends on safety, context, and relationship.

Therapy Chat looks at the Safe and Sound Protocol through the lens of relationship and felt safety. It lands best when it treats SSP as something that depends on context, not as a stand-alone fix.

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Why you'd press play

Want a grounded look at why SSP works better with safety than hype?

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