The Courageous Podcast with Ryan Berman · Ryan Berman

David van der Sanden - Head of Internal Communications and Engagement at Patagonia

August 27, 2025·56 min·3 clips

Patagonia is using 16 activism hours, canvassing, and street protest to push the protection of public lands.

The episode starts loose, with the host teasing the music, the bass, and the idea that David should have a courage jingle. David plays along and says he makes up his own jingles, which keeps the tone light before the talk gets serious. The conversation then moves into why music works so well on people, landing on rhythm, nature, and the way a beat can make someone smile. From there, the discussion shifts to Patagonia's culture and why the company has lasted for more than five decades. David says the place works because it is filled with people who care and who actually walk the talk. That idea becomes the frame for the rest of the interview: courage is not treated as a dramatic pose, but as a practical path toward purpose. He describes courage as knowledge plus faith plus action. He also says courageous decisions can bring someone closer to the person they want to become. The host keeps the tone moving with callbacks and questions that pull the thread back to behavior, not slogans. David explains that his role in internal communications is to make sure people understand how their work fits into a larger picture. He says he worries more about the team than about himself. What matters to him is whether people feel clear, engaged, encouraged, and able to see their own place in the mission. Patagonia's bigger picture, as he describes it, is to connect people to one another and to purpose. That means making information relevant whether someone is remote, in a store, or in a distribution center. It also means giving people inspiration through stories about the company's impact and the products being built. Once people understand that context, David says there is an opening to step into action. At Patagonia, that action includes activism hours that employees use throughout the year. It also includes activism internships and regular brain foods sessions, where vendors or local community members come in to share ideas and perspectives. The interview keeps its easy pace even as it lands on serious questions about engagement, purpose, and responsibility. It closes with the host thanking David, asking him to keep them posted about the choir, and sending the audience off with the usual call to stay brave.

As heard by us

Courage is treated as purpose in motion, not just a feeling.

The discussion ties courage to purpose, drive, and action, with Patagonia used to show how internal communication can point people toward something bigger.

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Why you'd press play

You want courage turned into action, not a poster slogan.

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