The Chochmat Nashim Podcast: Women Talk Judaism · Jewish Coffee House

Extreme Moderation (Season 8 Episode 2)

·21 min·1 clip

Anne shares a comment saying 'Torah is for men' and questions why anyone would publicly endorse such exclusion.

Anne Gordon and Shoshana Keats-Jaskoll discuss public reactions to Shoshana's recent blog post about the Orthodox Union. They examine how comments on the article reveal broader tensions within Jewish and Israeli society. The episode focuses on the conflict between religious extremism and secular intolerance. One comment on the blog stated, "Torah is for men," which the hosts find revealing of certain attitudes. Another commenter linked the U.S. election to a victory over "the intolerance of radical feminists" like Shoshana. A donor was motivated to support Chochmat Nashim after seeing Shoshana accused of being "woke." Shoshana describes her recent work with diverse Israeli social organizations. She experienced criticism from secular leftists for being an Orthodox woman fighting for change within the system. These critics suggested religious women are complicit in their own oppression by not abandoning traditional structures. Anne argues that true tolerance should include respecting religious belief and traditional practice. Shoshana notes that extremism on the right, which seeks to erase women, often provokes an extreme backlash on the left. She shares an anecdote where her daughter's army peers did not know what the Mishnah is, highlighting a cultural knowledge gap. A judge in Tel Aviv mistakenly assumed the erasure of women in magazines was mandated by halakha. Shoshana recounts a discussion about civil marriage alternatives, where an Arab woman explained how the policy setback efforts to combat bigamy in her community. The hosts argue that entrenched ideological positions often fail to address complex, real-world needs. They emphasize that most people are simply trying to live regular lives, not be activists. The most interesting insight is that activism which demands people abandon their religious identity is itself a form of intolerance. Shoshana expresses pain at being blamed for systemic problems she is trying to fix from within. The episode suggests that solutions which ignore context or harm minority groups within a minority are ineffective. A key takeaway is the importance of listening to all perspectives to build a better society. The hosts advocate for a pragmatic focus on serving the majority in the middle ground. They acknowledge that extremists on both sides will likely remain loud but marginal. Shoshana declares she is "extreme in my moderation" and her intolerance is specifically for the erasure of women. The conversation is reflective and personal, stemming from direct experiences in activism. The style is conversational and exploratory, moving from specific comments to broader societal analysis. This episode would appeal to listeners interested in intra-community dialogue, religious feminism, and Israeli society. Those seeking definitive answers or partisan rhetoric might find it less engaging.

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