Successful Nonprofits Podcast · The Goldenburg Group, LLC

Employer Loyalty --- > Employee Loyalty with Joe Mull

·32 min·3 clips

Joe Mull explains why 'employalty'—a mashup of employer loyalty and humanity—triggers real commitment at work.

Dolph Goldenberg interviews Joe Mull, an HR consultant and author, about improving employee retention in nonprofits. Mull's book "Employalty" argues that loyalty begins with employers creating humane workplaces. He hosts the Boss Better Now podcast, ranked highly by the Society for Human Resource Management. Mull developed his "Employalty" framework in response to common narratives around the "Great Resignation." He defines the term as an employer's commitment to a more humane employee experience, which he says triggers worker commitment. Mull asserts the current labor shift involves workers "upgrading" their quality of life, not just quitting jobs. He identifies dehumanizing practices like last-minute scheduling in retail or expecting salaried employees to work excessive hours. Mull references a chief medical officer frustrated that physicians now want standard work hours to have lives outside medicine. A key insight is that employees use an internal scorecard based on three factors: ideal job, meaningful work, and a great boss. Mull's research analyzed over 200 studies on why people quit, stay, or join organizations. He describes an "ideal job" as having proper compensation, manageable workload, and flexibility. "Meaningful work" involves purpose, using one's strengths, and experiencing belonging. The "great boss" factor hinges on trust, coaching, and advocacy. Mull shares a case study of a Seattle nonprofit that raised its minimum salary to $70,000, which professionalized roles and improved recruitment. He argues reducing employees' economic suffering frees mental capacity for higher performance. Mull challenges the nonprofit sector's acceptance of lower pay as a trade-off for mission-driven work. He concludes the era of hiring the "best person for the job" is over; employers must now create the "best job for the person." The conversation is educational and conversational, blending research, anecdotes, and practical advice. The tone is constructive and focused on actionable leadership strategies rather than assigning blame. Nonprofit leaders and managers struggling with turnover would find this episode immediately useful. HR professionals and anyone interested in workplace culture would also appreciate Mull's framework. Listeners seeking highly narrative storytelling or debate on labor economics might find other episodes more engaging.

As heard by us

A clear retention reset for nonprofit leaders who want a better way to think about why people stay.

This episode treats retention as a leadership problem, not a headcount problem. Dolph Goldenberg and Joe Maul return to a plain but uncomfortable point: people tend to stay when the job fits their life, the work feels worth doing, and the boss matters more than managers like to…

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Why you'd press play

A sharper way to think about why your team stays or walks.

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