Bookwild · Kate Hergott, Bookwild Collective

How John Marrs Writes Out of Order (And Still Nails the Ending)

April 3, 2026·1 hr 13 min·5 clips

Marrs sent his debut novel to 80 agents, got no interest, self-published it, and was then approached by two separate publishers about two different books at the same time.

1. Bookwild hosts Gare and Kate interview psychological thriller author John Marrs about Dead in the Water and his broader body of work. 2. Both hosts describe this as their most starstruck interview — more so than previous authors including Ruth Berman — with Gare saying it tops everything else and Kate comparing it to meeting Taylor Swift. 3. The episode's core question is how a journalist with no fiction training became one of the most distinctive psychological thriller writers working today. 4. Marrs worked as a celebrity journalist in London for many years before encountering an idea in a magazine that became his first novel, written in his spare time over 18 months. 5. He sent the manuscript to roughly 80 agents and publishers, expecting his journalism background to give him an advantage, and received no interest from anyone. 6. He self-published that book and two more, then was approached simultaneously by two different publishers about two different books — a coincidence he describes as being 'in the right place at the right time.' 7. Marrs did not leave journalism until 5-6 books into his career, convinced the writing success would not last even after he had sold approximately 1.5 million books. 8. His plotting process: he submits a 2,000-word synopsis to his Thomas & Mercer publisher before starting, writes a two-line outline per chapter, then commits only to having a known ending — 'I can't write a book unless I have an ending in mind.' 9. He writes chapters out of order, on separate A4 documents, depending on his mood each day: 'if I'm in a particularly devious mood I'll do some plot twist work'; the documents are assembled at the end. 10. One assembled draft came to only 57,000 words instead of the expected 90-100k — he declines to name the book but notes it has 'lots of long descriptions about sunsets and beaches.' 11. The hosts describe reading a Marrs novel as being a 'mouse' to his 'cat' — structural shocks followed by quieter chapters for processing, then another shock — and Marrs confirms this reflects the actual writing rhythm. 12. Marrs traces his habit of killing beloved characters to reading 'The Kind Worth Killing,' which kills a major character within the first third: 'I've been out and about with my sword slashing and murdering ever since.' 13. He rates his own weakest psychological thriller as Her Last Move — 'the lowest seller, not badly at all, but not as good as the others' — and says he always thought it felt less original than his other work. 14. The One, his first speculative thriller, became his most commercially successful book globally and was adapted for a major streaming platform; Marrs jokes that when asked why he allowed the adaptation to diverge from the book, he always answers: 'it paid my mortgage.' 15. The One is receiving a 10th anniversary edition with five new bonus chapters following all five couples a decade later to reveal what happened to them, under the subtitle 'The One Plus Ten.' 16. Dead in the Water went through more rewrites than any previous Marrs novel; the breakthrough came when he decided to bring back a major surviving character from a different book — an unplanned decision that required reworking already-written sections. 17. To promote an International Thriller Writers Award nomination, Marrs paid celebrities on Cameo — including Freddie Prinze Jr., a member of NSYNC, Priscilla Presley, and Jerry Springer — to read one-star reviews of his books aloud on video. 18. The interview is relaxed and conversational, with the hosts asking Marrs to name his least favorite book and his most starstruck celebrity meeting; Marrs shares a story about being arrested for speeding in California. 19. Long-time Marrs readers who want insight into his non-linear writing process and the backstory of Dead in the Water will get the most from this episode. 20. Listeners unfamiliar with psychological thrillers or Marrs's catalog who are looking for a craft-focused interview should start with an episode more oriented around technique.

As heard by us

A spoiler-aware book chat that keeps circling the twists, even when it wanders.

Bookwild spends most of its time on Dead in the Water, the latest John Mars novel, and the hosts are plainly in the bag for it. The talk keeps circling the book's twists, with guesses, revisions, and a steady pull toward where the story is headed.

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Why you'd press play

A twisty John Marrs chat that keeps chasing the ending and then some.

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